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	<title>Comments on: A Land Where Men and Women are Paid Equally</title>
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	<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/</link>
	<description>Strength in Numbers</description>
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		<title>By: Myrddin Emrys</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35248</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrddin Emrys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35248</guid>
		<description>The Basics section has Haringay dark, and Wokingham light... but they swap colors on the two bar charts. This made me re-read that section several times to make sure I was interpreting it correctly. And the uncertainty this created made me take three times longer reading the other sections, even though the rest remained consistent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Basics section has Haringay dark, and Wokingham light&#8230; but they swap colors on the two bar charts. This made me re-read that section several times to make sure I was interpreting it correctly. And the uncertainty this created made me take three times longer reading the other sections, even though the rest remained consistent.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35221</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35221</guid>
		<description>I know more stay-at-home dads than I do stay-at-home moms. Sure, it may not be a global trend, but it points to something important. The men stayed home because their wives made more money than they did. Staying home with your children is as much (if not more) a financial decision as it is a biological decision. Perhaps women stay home not because they have some burning &quot;female&quot; desire to be with their children, but because they get paid less and it doesn&#039;t make financial sense to return to work and pay the cost of child care. I don&#039;t want to be too critical without knowing for sure what studies you are citing, but it seems to me like these are questionable statistics.

-Justin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know more stay-at-home dads than I do stay-at-home moms. Sure, it may not be a global trend, but it points to something important. The men stayed home because their wives made more money than they did. Staying home with your children is as much (if not more) a financial decision as it is a biological decision. Perhaps women stay home not because they have some burning &#8220;female&#8221; desire to be with their children, but because they get paid less and it doesn&#8217;t make financial sense to return to work and pay the cost of child care. I don&#8217;t want to be too critical without knowing for sure what studies you are citing, but it seems to me like these are questionable statistics.</p>
<p>-Justin</p>
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		<title>By: Ellen Carpenter</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35218</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen Carpenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35218</guid>
		<description>Ben - I&#039;d be very interested to see these studies. 

I do know that girls outperform boys at every level of education in the UK, so quite how that translates to a pay gap once they reach employment I can&#039;t see.

The question of childcare is far more complex and is closely linked to the debate surrounding parental leave, however I don&#039;t accept that women should earn less on returning to work after having children. Remember these statistics are based on hourly rates for full-time work, so they&#039;re not affected by part-time hours or time taken off work for raising children, both of which naturally impact overall earnings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben &#8211; I&#8217;d be very interested to see these studies. </p>
<p>I do know that girls outperform boys at every level of education in the UK, so quite how that translates to a pay gap once they reach employment I can&#8217;t see.</p>
<p>The question of childcare is far more complex and is closely linked to the debate surrounding parental leave, however I don&#8217;t accept that women should earn less on returning to work after having children. Remember these statistics are based on hourly rates for full-time work, so they&#8217;re not affected by part-time hours or time taken off work for raising children, both of which naturally impact overall earnings.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan bowman</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35217</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan bowman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35217</guid>
		<description>nathan - you are totally right, we should have been more clear about why we chose these particular demographics  -- they were chosen for very specific reasons, each of them is a vital part of explaining the secondary causes of the pay gap figure. we were trying to avoid an explanation of the simplistic total pay gap figure (17.1%) which we find a little misleading without proper explanation. (and i hope that slightly answers your first point jonathan)

* average household salary because men tend to be better represented in better paid jobs (and thus the pay gap larger in richer areas). 
* full time v. part time figures because women often work more in part time roles because of childcare duties (among other reasons) and part time work is often less lucrative than full time. 
* occupational breakdown because in the higher paying sectors men often are the majority (this is the most complicated and controversial set of statistics because, as the police v. nurse debate shows, it gets down to the value of particular occupations to society).  
* and the prevalence of children, young children in particular, because those children often limit a woman&#039;s ability to work 

we should make this more clear in the graphic though, that&#039;s for sure

laura - wokingham is a town but its also a borough and we are using the statistics for its borough-ness, not its town-ness

jonathan - totally right on the salary comparison, you were first, but definitely not the last to point that one out.  sorry and thanks.  and we changed it.

pete - it hurts my eyes too.  like blood from the eyes style.  we are in the long long process of redesigning it now.

ben - ellen is going to reply to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nathan &#8211; you are totally right, we should have been more clear about why we chose these particular demographics  &#8212; they were chosen for very specific reasons, each of them is a vital part of explaining the secondary causes of the pay gap figure. we were trying to avoid an explanation of the simplistic total pay gap figure (17.1%) which we find a little misleading without proper explanation. (and i hope that slightly answers your first point jonathan)</p>
<p>* average household salary because men tend to be better represented in better paid jobs (and thus the pay gap larger in richer areas).<br />
* full time v. part time figures because women often work more in part time roles because of childcare duties (among other reasons) and part time work is often less lucrative than full time.<br />
* occupational breakdown because in the higher paying sectors men often are the majority (this is the most complicated and controversial set of statistics because, as the police v. nurse debate shows, it gets down to the value of particular occupations to society).<br />
* and the prevalence of children, young children in particular, because those children often limit a woman&#8217;s ability to work </p>
<p>we should make this more clear in the graphic though, that&#8217;s for sure</p>
<p>laura &#8211; wokingham is a town but its also a borough and we are using the statistics for its borough-ness, not its town-ness</p>
<p>jonathan &#8211; totally right on the salary comparison, you were first, but definitely not the last to point that one out.  sorry and thanks.  and we changed it.</p>
<p>pete &#8211; it hurts my eyes too.  like blood from the eyes style.  we are in the long long process of redesigning it now.</p>
<p>ben &#8211; ellen is going to reply to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35216</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35216</guid>
		<description>I was surprised that a large and well-paid sector of the economy appears to be &quot; *mangers* and senior officers.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was surprised that a large and well-paid sector of the economy appears to be &#8221; *mangers* and senior officers.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: edgertor</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35215</link>
		<dc:creator>edgertor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35215</guid>
		<description>i found this really confusing, myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i found this really confusing, myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Mathews</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35214</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Mathews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35214</guid>
		<description>Studies have shown that when education, and women&#039;s desire to take time off for child rearing is controlled for, there is not pay gap.  We have to compare apples to apples to have a valid comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Studies have shown that when education, and women&#8217;s desire to take time off for child rearing is controlled for, there is not pay gap.  We have to compare apples to apples to have a valid comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35211</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35211</guid>
		<description>I find it bizarre that the people behind this, Shakeup Media, are also responsible for the offense to both eye and mind that is www.horoscopes.co.uk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it bizarre that the people behind this, Shakeup Media, are also responsible for the offense to both eye and mind that is <a href="http://www.horoscopes.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.horoscopes.co.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Beeston</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35208</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Beeston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35208</guid>
		<description>Nice chart, but as you said, it doesn&#039;t tell you what the pay gap is in absolute terms.  Judging by the much higher household income in Wokingham, you might infer that women there earn much more than those in Haringey, despite the pay gap % difference.

Also the way household income is display makes it look that Haringey&#039;s is about a quarter of Wokingham&#039;s when in fact it&#039;s just under half.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice chart, but as you said, it doesn&#8217;t tell you what the pay gap is in absolute terms.  Judging by the much higher household income in Wokingham, you might infer that women there earn much more than those in Haringey, despite the pay gap % difference.</p>
<p>Also the way household income is display makes it look that Haringey&#8217;s is about a quarter of Wokingham&#8217;s when in fact it&#8217;s just under half.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura M</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/02/a-land-where-men-and-women-are-paid-equally/#comment-35207</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 11:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=3497#comment-35207</guid>
		<description>Nitpick: neither of those are cities. Wokingham is a town and Haringey is a borough within London. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nitpick: neither of those are cities. Wokingham is a town and Haringey is a borough within London. :)</p>
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