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	<title>Comments on: Is There a Market for Premium Online Data Visualization?</title>
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	<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/</link>
	<description>Strength in Numbers</description>
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		<title>By: LinkSnack &#124; ettf.net</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13762</link>
		<dc:creator>LinkSnack &#124; ettf.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13762</guid>
		<description>[...] post on FlowingData on data visualisation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post on FlowingData on data visualisation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PR</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13682</link>
		<dc:creator>PR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13682</guid>
		<description>From my experience there absolutely is a market for &quot;premium visualization online&quot;.  I&#039;ve used a half a dozen or so such products (of varying quality, with varying success..) in the past 4 years.  

But I agree with what Ben had to say.  After using various products for a while, I&#039;ve concluded that the really &quot;interesting&quot; visualizations can&#039;t be bought.  They have to be built.  A simple bar, line, or pie chart can now be done easily out of the box with something like fusion charts.  But if you want to get into what I consider &quot;premium visualizations...&quot; you gotta build it.  The good stuff is specific to your data - no generic tool will do.

Fortunately things like Flex/Flex Charting are finally giving us the tools to do just that.  

As long as there is interesting data there will be interesting, custom, views that need to be built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From my experience there absolutely is a market for &#8220;premium visualization online&#8221;.  I&#8217;ve used a half a dozen or so such products (of varying quality, with varying success..) in the past 4 years.  </p>
<p>But I agree with what Ben had to say.  After using various products for a while, I&#8217;ve concluded that the really &#8220;interesting&#8221; visualizations can&#8217;t be bought.  They have to be built.  A simple bar, line, or pie chart can now be done easily out of the box with something like fusion charts.  But if you want to get into what I consider &#8220;premium visualizations&#8230;&#8221; you gotta build it.  The good stuff is specific to your data &#8211; no generic tool will do.</p>
<p>Fortunately things like Flex/Flex Charting are finally giving us the tools to do just that.  </p>
<p>As long as there is interesting data there will be interesting, custom, views that need to be built.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Hosken</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13590</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hosken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13590</guid>
		<description>I believe there is. But, initially it is more a service demand than a product. Even if we take a simple example of say Excel, being able to produce useful meaningful charts is still a skill that not everyone who uses excel has, even though they could set up a fairly complex spreadsheet. 

Much like other emerging technologies, I feel data viz is ahead of the wave and clear defined business benefits/measures are yet to be available and understood across many business domains. 

Without measurable benefits, and I&#039;m not saying they don&#039;t exist, just that they are not clearly articulated to the business audience yet, service firms will require a &quot;leap of faith&quot; during the sales process. 

If you look at Stamen as an example, they have a great niche but the companies are still other visionary startup style companies.

That said, the skills involved in handling terabytes of data, data mining that set and representing it for consumption and interaction using data viz are rare and demand of them is only going to increase over the next couple of years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe there is. But, initially it is more a service demand than a product. Even if we take a simple example of say Excel, being able to produce useful meaningful charts is still a skill that not everyone who uses excel has, even though they could set up a fairly complex spreadsheet. </p>
<p>Much like other emerging technologies, I feel data viz is ahead of the wave and clear defined business benefits/measures are yet to be available and understood across many business domains. </p>
<p>Without measurable benefits, and I&#8217;m not saying they don&#8217;t exist, just that they are not clearly articulated to the business audience yet, service firms will require a &#8220;leap of faith&#8221; during the sales process. </p>
<p>If you look at Stamen as an example, they have a great niche but the companies are still other visionary startup style companies.</p>
<p>That said, the skills involved in handling terabytes of data, data mining that set and representing it for consumption and interaction using data viz are rare and demand of them is only going to increase over the next couple of years.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13585</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13585</guid>
		<description>Zach, Jon - the ugly factor doesn&#039;t concern me so much from a sales standpoint. To go back on fusionCharts, it&#039;s simply a (semi-)customizable viz package for developers to integrate into their websites. Fusion provides tools. It&#039;s not their fault a developer uses viz incorrectly in the same way it&#039;s not Craftsman&#039;s fault if someone tries to smash in a nail with a wrench. 

I do agree that FusionCharts aren&#039;t especially elegant, but it is successful, which says &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, Jon &#8211; the ugly factor doesn&#8217;t concern me so much from a sales standpoint. To go back on fusionCharts, it&#8217;s simply a (semi-)customizable viz package for developers to integrate into their websites. Fusion provides tools. It&#8217;s not their fault a developer uses viz incorrectly in the same way it&#8217;s not Craftsman&#8217;s fault if someone tries to smash in a nail with a wrench. </p>
<p>I do agree that FusionCharts aren&#8217;t especially elegant, but it is successful, which says <em>something</em>.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13583</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13583</guid>
		<description>I can say from experience that this market exists. It is what we do at Juice Analytics. However, making advanced data visualization useful is both a technical challenge and a design challenge. 

There are at least three hurdles that we typically see:
1) As noted by Peltier, implementation by someone who doesn&#039;t understand infoviz fundamentals can end up eye-gougingly ugly and useless.
2) Data integration is non-trivial. If you are connecting to a public and well structured API, creating cool visualization mashups can be easy. Pulling data from proprietary enterprise systems is a whole different ball-o-wax.
3. None of this is valuable unless there is a lot of thought put into how the advanced visualization can connect to existing work processes and the decisions users need to make.

ILOG Elixir (http://www.ilog.com/products/ilogelixir/) is another example of a set of visualization components. At Juice, we&#039;ve got a similar toolkit of Flex-based components which are a bit more, um, Tufte-compliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can say from experience that this market exists. It is what we do at Juice Analytics. However, making advanced data visualization useful is both a technical challenge and a design challenge. </p>
<p>There are at least three hurdles that we typically see:<br />
1) As noted by Peltier, implementation by someone who doesn&#8217;t understand infoviz fundamentals can end up eye-gougingly ugly and useless.<br />
2) Data integration is non-trivial. If you are connecting to a public and well structured API, creating cool visualization mashups can be easy. Pulling data from proprietary enterprise systems is a whole different ball-o-wax.<br />
3. None of this is valuable unless there is a lot of thought put into how the advanced visualization can connect to existing work processes and the decisions users need to make.</p>
<p>ILOG Elixir (<a href="http://www.ilog.com/products/ilogelixir/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ilog.com/products/ilogelixir/</a>) is another example of a set of visualization components. At Juice, we&#8217;ve got a similar toolkit of Flex-based components which are a bit more, um, Tufte-compliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13581</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13581</guid>
		<description>So here is the problem as I see it: 

At one end of &quot;premium&quot; is the once-off &quot;artisan&quot; job. An example of this would be if I commissioned Nicholas Felton to build something beautiful and unique using my own personal data. At this end, you have to be good enough to charge $$$ for each job, or else your $ per hour of effort is low. So I don&#039;t think this is a market for a software product.

At the other end of &quot;premium&quot; is the software approach. It scales better as you sell licenses so your $ per hour of effort can be high. However, at this point you have to compete with free software and commercial software like you showed (and stuff like dotnetcharting.com) However, it is still hard for the average person to make something like your walmart map using those tools. If you could make it easier then you might be on a winner, but it&#039;s a tough ask. 

For example, I could just plug my personal stats into many eyes, but it just doesn&#039;t excite me because it is all to vanilla. So applying the above idea would require something that let me put my stats in (assume I am not a programmer) and produced something nicer than many-eyes, but it still wouldn&#039;t be as good as a custom feltron original.

Funny about that... and here&#039;s a little scoop for flowing data:

Look at: http://daytum.com

(@Scott - your wish came true?!?!)

Another way to look at it is from the horizontal vs. vertical perspective.  The software you listed as examples are basically horizontal. That is, tools that you can apply to various specific viz tasks.  I wouldn&#039;t try to compete with free tools or BigSoftwareCompanies in that space.

There&#039;s probably a market for vertical visualization however. Pick a specific subject or business and make the best visualizations for that space, say car dealership for example (http://www.dealerdiagnostics.com). Take all the tech-pain out of it. Sell that as software. You can probably find a well paid niche to avoid competition, but you&#039;ll need the expertise and experience in that vertical to be able to imagineer something great.

That&#039;s really what daytum is doing. A &quot;personal stats&quot; vertical using horizontal software (in this case google charts api).

Fun conversation here Nathan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So here is the problem as I see it: </p>
<p>At one end of &#8220;premium&#8221; is the once-off &#8220;artisan&#8221; job. An example of this would be if I commissioned Nicholas Felton to build something beautiful and unique using my own personal data. At this end, you have to be good enough to charge $$$ for each job, or else your $ per hour of effort is low. So I don&#8217;t think this is a market for a software product.</p>
<p>At the other end of &#8220;premium&#8221; is the software approach. It scales better as you sell licenses so your $ per hour of effort can be high. However, at this point you have to compete with free software and commercial software like you showed (and stuff like dotnetcharting.com) However, it is still hard for the average person to make something like your walmart map using those tools. If you could make it easier then you might be on a winner, but it&#8217;s a tough ask. </p>
<p>For example, I could just plug my personal stats into many eyes, but it just doesn&#8217;t excite me because it is all to vanilla. So applying the above idea would require something that let me put my stats in (assume I am not a programmer) and produced something nicer than many-eyes, but it still wouldn&#8217;t be as good as a custom feltron original.</p>
<p>Funny about that&#8230; and here&#8217;s a little scoop for flowing data:</p>
<p>Look at: <a href="http://daytum.com" rel="nofollow">http://daytum.com</a></p>
<p>(@Scott &#8211; your wish came true?!?!)</p>
<p>Another way to look at it is from the horizontal vs. vertical perspective.  The software you listed as examples are basically horizontal. That is, tools that you can apply to various specific viz tasks.  I wouldn&#8217;t try to compete with free tools or BigSoftwareCompanies in that space.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s probably a market for vertical visualization however. Pick a specific subject or business and make the best visualizations for that space, say car dealership for example (<a href="http://www.dealerdiagnostics.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.dealerdiagnostics.com</a>). Take all the tech-pain out of it. Sell that as software. You can probably find a well paid niche to avoid competition, but you&#8217;ll need the expertise and experience in that vertical to be able to imagineer something great.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s really what daytum is doing. A &#8220;personal stats&#8221; vertical using horizontal software (in this case google charts api).</p>
<p>Fun conversation here Nathan!</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13578</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13578</guid>
		<description>Tim - let&#039;s assume people know about my furniture. i&#039;m not wondering so much about getting work as i am about selling software.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; let&#8217;s assume people know about my furniture. i&#8217;m not wondering so much about getting work as i am about selling software.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Stadum</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13577</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Stadum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13577</guid>
		<description>I definitely see a market for these services.  Many organizations and individuals would love to take advantage of this technology but don&#039;t have clue how to begin.  The free services are great like Many Eyes and Swivel but they&#039;re somewhat limiting and not entirely intuitive.

Another possible market can be found in Nicholas Felton&#039;s Personal Annual Reports - 

http://www.feltron.com/index.php?/content/2007_annual_report/

If users could easily plug in personal attention data each week and at the end of the year have a professional and attractive &quot;annual report&quot; produced, I could see such a service be quite successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely see a market for these services.  Many organizations and individuals would love to take advantage of this technology but don&#8217;t have clue how to begin.  The free services are great like Many Eyes and Swivel but they&#8217;re somewhat limiting and not entirely intuitive.</p>
<p>Another possible market can be found in Nicholas Felton&#8217;s Personal Annual Reports &#8211; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.feltron.com/index.php?/content/2007_annual_report/" rel="nofollow">http://www.feltron.com/index.p.....al_report/</a></p>
<p>If users could easily plug in personal attention data each week and at the end of the year have a professional and attractive &#8220;annual report&#8221; produced, I could see such a service be quite successful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13576</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13576</guid>
		<description>The need is there. Unfortunately, if it&#039;s being met, it&#039;s with packagees like FusionCharts that make it too easy to produce distracting visual extravaganzas like the three Fusion examples you supplied. (In fact, I featured the FusionCharts Funnel chart in &lt;a href=&quot;http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/2008/06/29/bad-graphics-funnel-chart/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bad Graphics - Funnel Chart&lt;/a&gt;.)

The real question, is who can put these lame 3D effects aside and introduce a package for the masses that enables effective data presentation. I&#039;m thinking of a broader implementation of something like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bonavistasystems.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BonaVista MicroCharts&lt;/a&gt;, not a 4D version of FusionCharts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The need is there. Unfortunately, if it&#8217;s being met, it&#8217;s with packagees like FusionCharts that make it too easy to produce distracting visual extravaganzas like the three Fusion examples you supplied. (In fact, I featured the FusionCharts Funnel chart in <a href="http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/2008/06/29/bad-graphics-funnel-chart/" rel="nofollow">Bad Graphics &#8211; Funnel Chart</a>.)</p>
<p>The real question, is who can put these lame 3D effects aside and introduce a package for the masses that enables effective data presentation. I&#8217;m thinking of a broader implementation of something like <a href="http://www.bonavistasystems.com/" rel="nofollow">BonaVista MicroCharts</a>, not a 4D version of FusionCharts.</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/08/15/is-there-a-market-for-premium-online-data-visualization/#comment-13575</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=901#comment-13575</guid>
		<description>The need is definitely there. As a consultant, you could produce custom visualizations. These would likely be one-off projects but would build a resume of projects and web of contacts (the biz world, especially within a sector or within a city, is smaller than you&#039;d think, even in a place like NYC).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The need is definitely there. As a consultant, you could produce custom visualizations. These would likely be one-off projects but would build a resume of projects and web of contacts (the biz world, especially within a sector or within a city, is smaller than you&#8217;d think, even in a place like NYC).</p>
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