Comments on: Is Napoleon’s March the Greatest Statistical Graphic Ever? http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/ Strength in Numbers Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:38:16 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Donald http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-13530 Donald Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:07:12 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-13530 While the Minard infograph was an innovation for its time, it did not set a trend that has continued to this day (as with Snows) and did not change Public or Military practice A better competitior for 'best graphs' would be the series Forence Nightingale created during the Crimean war between Britain and Russia. These charts would be instantly recognisable to Analysts today and were immediately powerful in their own time > Transforming Military medical care to reduce disease and infection casualties both in and out of combat > and creating (or perhaps publicly validating) the proffession of Nurses. While the Minard infograph was an innovation for its time, it did not set a trend that has continued to this day (as with Snows) and did not change Public or Military practice

A better competitior for ‘best graphs’ would be the series Forence Nightingale created during the Crimean war between Britain and Russia.
These charts would be instantly recognisable to Analysts today and were immediately powerful in their own time > Transforming Military medical care to reduce disease and infection casualties both in and out of combat > and creating (or perhaps publicly validating) the proffession of Nurses.

]]> By: Hadley http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-10135 Hadley Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:09:51 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-10135 There are a few versions of the data (and electronically recreated versions of the plot) available at http://www.math.yorku.ca/SCS/Gallery/re-minard.html There are a few versions of the data (and electronically recreated versions of the plot) available at http://www.math.yorku.ca/SCS/G.....inard.html

]]> By: Jason Koulouras http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-10054 Jason Koulouras Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:21:11 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-10054 I think this graphic was highly innovative and very informative considering the time when it was created. It imparts a significant amount of information and gets a point across without resorting to copious amounts of text or data tables (something many could learn from today). I am a fan of the work and ideas of Tufte and do refer to his visual information techniques at the office and use many of his principles to abstract or convey complex information when appropriate. I think this graphic was highly innovative and very informative considering the time when it was created. It imparts a significant amount of information and gets a point across without resorting to copious amounts of text or data tables (something many could learn from today). I am a fan of the work and ideas of Tufte and do refer to his visual information techniques at the office and use many of his principles to abstract or convey complex information when appropriate.

]]> By: Nathan http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9911 Nathan Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:29:25 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9911 actually, i think i have the data somewhere. i'll consider it actually, i think i have the data somewhere. i’ll consider it

]]> By: ZBicyclist http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9904 ZBicyclist Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:35:42 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9904 I like Cedric's idea: "Someone shoud organize a “Beat Minard Graphic” contest. Could be fun :). " Who's got the data? I like Cedric’s idea:

“Someone shoud organize a “Beat Minard Graphic” contest. Could be fun :). ”

Who’s got the data?

]]> By: ZBicyclist http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9902 ZBicyclist Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:27:16 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9902 No, it's clearly not the best. It's very good from a design standpoint, but it resulted in nothing. Napoleon had already lost. So, what's better? I'd nominate Snow's graphic http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/pubs/snow/snow.html which deals with the source of a cholera epidemic being a specific well, and reflects analytic processes Snow was using to figure out how to deal with the epidemic. This sort of graphic is very common today (e.g. laying out your customers on a map). What did the Napoleon graph lead to? I can't think of a lot of graphics which are like it. No, it’s clearly not the best. It’s very good from a design standpoint, but it resulted in nothing. Napoleon had already lost.

So, what’s better?

I’d nominate Snow’s graphic http://www.ncgia.ucsb.edu/pubs/snow/snow.html
which deals with the source of a cholera epidemic being a specific well, and reflects analytic processes Snow was using to figure out how to deal with the epidemic.

This sort of graphic is very common today (e.g. laying out your customers on a map). What did the Napoleon graph lead to? I can’t think of a lot of graphics which are like it.

]]> By: Jon Peltier http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9840 Jon Peltier Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:52:02 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9840 Ash - It's not a pie chart, it's an infographic. Pie charts need little explanation and their information can be assimilated in seconds. An infographic with such a large density of information requires several minutes to understand. Given that Menard didn't have access to computers, clip art, etc., I think his infographics rate highly in comparison to, e.g., those in the NY Times. Compared to the various word clouds and pseudo-network diagrams we see so many of, Menard's rates head and shoulders above. Ash – It’s not a pie chart, it’s an infographic. Pie charts need little explanation and their information can be assimilated in seconds. An infographic with such a large density of information requires several minutes to understand. Given that Menard didn’t have access to computers, clip art, etc., I think his infographics rate highly in comparison to, e.g., those in the NY Times. Compared to the various word clouds and pseudo-network diagrams we see so many of, Menard’s rates head and shoulders above.

]]> By: ash http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9756 ash Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:59:39 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9756 Honestly, what's so good about it? I feel like it needs explanation and diverges enough from people's mental construct of an infographic that makes it largely unusable. I agree with Seth Godin, it sucks. It might have been innovative back then but it has a high aesthetic/low performance quotient. Also agree with MB's comment, the train schedule is way better. Honestly, what’s so good about it? I feel like it needs explanation and diverges enough from people’s mental construct of an infographic that makes it largely unusable.

I agree with Seth Godin, it sucks. It might have been innovative back then but it has a high aesthetic/low performance quotient.

Also agree with MB’s comment, the train schedule is way better.

]]> By: cedric http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9590 cedric Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:38:16 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9590 I think that Minard was really innovative at his time but I'm sure one could make a "better" graphic with the same data now (clearer, faster to read, maybe with more info). Someone shoud organize a "Beat Minard Graphic" contest. Could be fun :). I think that Minard was really innovative at his time but I’m sure one could make a “better” graphic with the same data now (clearer, faster to read, maybe with more info).

Someone shoud organize a “Beat Minard Graphic” contest. Could be fun :).

]]> By: Nathan http://flowingdata.com/2008/07/17/is-minards-map-of-napoleons-march-the-greatest-statistical-graphic-ever/#comment-9572 Nathan Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:40:22 +0000 http://flowingdata.com/?p=847#comment-9572 Ambrose - I couldn't agree more. Even in the more quantitative areas, it's a recurring example. Victor - that's another really good "metric" to go by. evoking emotion, which the minard achieves on some levels. A couple of subjects brought up earlier - seth godin one point and instant recognition. we should keep seth godin's audience in mind and the medium which is business powerpoint. and then the instant recognition thing - do we need to understand a graphic immediately for it to be good? if the data are simple or we are presenting in a talk, then yeah, probably, but what about for print, online, or exploratory data analysis? Ambrose – I couldn’t agree more. Even in the more quantitative areas, it’s a recurring example.

Victor – that’s another really good “metric” to go by. evoking emotion, which the minard achieves on some levels.

A couple of subjects brought up earlier – seth godin one point and instant recognition. we should keep seth godin’s audience in mind and the medium which is business powerpoint.

and then the instant recognition thing – do we need to understand a graphic immediately for it to be good? if the data are simple or we are presenting in a talk, then yeah, probably, but what about for print, online, or exploratory data analysis?

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