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	<title>Comments on: Our Non-ability to Misunderstand Statistics of Rare Events</title>
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	<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/</link>
	<description>Strength in Numbers</description>
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		<title>By: Jon Peltier</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-5975</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-5975</guid>
		<description>Thomas -

The few times I&#039;ve been gambling, I&#039;ve invested a few bucks in a roll of coins, and budgeted that to last the time I planned to spend before gorging on the $4.99 buffet. $10 of quarters gives you a lot of sensory overload, with the lights, bells, sirens, and coins spilling into the loose metal cup. My lastgambling escapade was over ten years ago. I travel to Atlantic City every year for a conference, and haven&#039;t felt the need to gamble since the time in Tahoe where I lost, let&#039;s see, $20 between my wife and me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas -</p>
<p>The few times I&#8217;ve been gambling, I&#8217;ve invested a few bucks in a roll of coins, and budgeted that to last the time I planned to spend before gorging on the $4.99 buffet. $10 of quarters gives you a lot of sensory overload, with the lights, bells, sirens, and coins spilling into the loose metal cup. My lastgambling escapade was over ten years ago. I travel to Atlantic City every year for a conference, and haven&#8217;t felt the need to gamble since the time in Tahoe where I lost, let&#8217;s see, $20 between my wife and me.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50481</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50481</guid>
		<description>We gamble because it&#039;s a controlled format for taking risk which is necessary for some people to feel that they are living a complete life.  In a world where our risks are being increasingly mitigated, partaking in the minor (to most people) risk of losing some money adds missing adrenaline to a lot of people&#039;s lives.
Personally, when I gamble (which is not very often), I figure out how much I can lose and try to make that last as long as possible while having fun and then compare that cost to other forms of entertainment (movies, concerts, vacations, etc...).  If you&#039;re savvy, you can entertain yourself with gambling much more effectively than through other means.
Airbags anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We gamble because it&#8217;s a controlled format for taking risk which is necessary for some people to feel that they are living a complete life.  In a world where our risks are being increasingly mitigated, partaking in the minor (to most people) risk of losing some money adds missing adrenaline to a lot of people&#8217;s lives.<br />
Personally, when I gamble (which is not very often), I figure out how much I can lose and try to make that last as long as possible while having fun and then compare that cost to other forms of entertainment (movies, concerts, vacations, etc&#8230;).  If you&#8217;re savvy, you can entertain yourself with gambling much more effectively than through other means.<br />
Airbags anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Yau</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50480</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Yau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50480</guid>
		<description>I definitely wasn&#039;t expecting this. It&#039;s like our very own statistics lesson going on here. Nice. Thanks everyone for taking the time to teach about bringing the real world into theories!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely wasn&#8217;t expecting this. It&#8217;s like our very own statistics lesson going on here. Nice. Thanks everyone for taking the time to teach about bringing the real world into theories!</p>
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		<title>By: DaveW</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-5465</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-5465</guid>
		<description>As Jerome points out, the potential for infinite loss, as with a child, destroys the theoretical argument.  Also, as Ishikawa warned us: always suspect the data.  In the case of danger to children, catastrophic data and &#039;skinned-knee&#039; data have been lumped together for the benefit of groups advocating one thing or another.  Accepting this egregious distortion as a foundation for argument calls the whole point of the article into question.  One suspects it was written by a childless person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Jerome points out, the potential for infinite loss, as with a child, destroys the theoretical argument.  Also, as Ishikawa warned us: always suspect the data.  In the case of danger to children, catastrophic data and &#8216;skinned-knee&#8217; data have been lumped together for the benefit of groups advocating one thing or another.  Accepting this egregious distortion as a foundation for argument calls the whole point of the article into question.  One suspects it was written by a childless person.</p>
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		<title>By: Manoel Neto</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50478</link>
		<dc:creator>Manoel Neto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50478</guid>
		<description>As an economist and political scientist, I would add one thing:

Maybe we gambling because what we care is not about the expected value, since we receive more &quot;utility&quot; to high gain than to middle or low gain. So, we indeed are rational people, even if we gamble. In other words, even knowing statistics, I can gamble and being a rational man.
That&#039;s what we&#039;ve learned a long time ago with St. Petersburg Paradox, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an economist and political scientist, I would add one thing:</p>
<p>Maybe we gambling because what we care is not about the expected value, since we receive more &#8220;utility&#8221; to high gain than to middle or low gain. So, we indeed are rational people, even if we gamble. In other words, even knowing statistics, I can gamble and being a rational man.<br />
That&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve learned a long time ago with St. Petersburg Paradox, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: mike anderson</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50477</link>
		<dc:creator>mike anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50477</guid>
		<description>Doctrow writes &quot;In other words, in the effort to find the terrorist needles in our haystacks, we&#039;re just making much bigger haystacks.&quot;

Sounds to me like its Doctrow who needs to learn how statistics works.  Data mining or any other diagnostic procedure allow us to calculate a posterior probability of an event which may be much higher than the prior probability, suggesting whether or not we should investigate further--we may have a much SMALLER haystack.

As one statistician said about our detractors: &quot;There are liars, outliers, and out-and-out liars.&quot;  And lots of folks who should have taken TWO semesters of statistics, and passed with better than a C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doctrow writes &#8220;In other words, in the effort to find the terrorist needles in our haystacks, we&#8217;re just making much bigger haystacks.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds to me like its Doctrow who needs to learn how statistics works.  Data mining or any other diagnostic procedure allow us to calculate a posterior probability of an event which may be much higher than the prior probability, suggesting whether or not we should investigate further&#8211;we may have a much SMALLER haystack.</p>
<p>As one statistician said about our detractors: &#8220;There are liars, outliers, and out-and-out liars.&#8221;  And lots of folks who should have taken TWO semesters of statistics, and passed with better than a C.</p>
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		<title>By: jerome</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50476</link>
		<dc:creator>jerome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50476</guid>
		<description>the opinions expressed in the article would only be valid in a theoretical world. 

let&#039;s adress 3 paradoxes he mentions: a guy going to Vegas thinking he can win big, a parent who panicks at the slightest menace to their child, and the paradox of a false positive where a test that work 99% of the time to detect a condition that happens once on a million cases actually gives misleading results 9999 times on 10000. 

guy goes to vegas: 
mathematically, if one plays indefinitely they will lose an infinite amount of money. but this can&#039;t happen as one&#039;s lifespan and resources are limited. on the other hand if one wins big, which has admittedly very small chances of happening, they could get more money than they ever could earn in a lifetime. and until they actually spend their betting money, they enjoy the hope of winning which has a non-null value. 
In other words: you spend a limited amount of money, which you accept to lose, and you get a chance to win an unrelatedly high amount of money. Is that such a bad deal? If one had an infinite amount of time and money at their disposal, then gambling could only yield negative results, but such is not the case.

For the panicking parent, the same reasoning apply in the opposite direction. Losing a child has an infinite cost, even though it has a low chance of occuring (unfortunately higher than winning at the lottery but still), while taking all possible precautions has a non-null cost. while such precautions could seem excessive and unjustified, they make sense in the face of the unbearable possiblity of letting your child be harmed. Again if one felt comfortable with the idea of putting a price tag on a child&#039;s life, there could be a treshold where it would be rational to stop. That&#039;s the difference between the real world and a hypothetic model. 

finally the example he gave is not too convincing. it is inaccurate to say that this test gives erroneous results 9999 times out of 10000; because it also gives correct results for 990000 people...

I&#039;m a mathematician that gambles now and again. and loses more often than not. but that&#039;s ok</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the opinions expressed in the article would only be valid in a theoretical world. </p>
<p>let&#8217;s adress 3 paradoxes he mentions: a guy going to Vegas thinking he can win big, a parent who panicks at the slightest menace to their child, and the paradox of a false positive where a test that work 99% of the time to detect a condition that happens once on a million cases actually gives misleading results 9999 times on 10000. </p>
<p>guy goes to vegas:<br />
mathematically, if one plays indefinitely they will lose an infinite amount of money. but this can&#8217;t happen as one&#8217;s lifespan and resources are limited. on the other hand if one wins big, which has admittedly very small chances of happening, they could get more money than they ever could earn in a lifetime. and until they actually spend their betting money, they enjoy the hope of winning which has a non-null value.<br />
In other words: you spend a limited amount of money, which you accept to lose, and you get a chance to win an unrelatedly high amount of money. Is that such a bad deal? If one had an infinite amount of time and money at their disposal, then gambling could only yield negative results, but such is not the case.</p>
<p>For the panicking parent, the same reasoning apply in the opposite direction. Losing a child has an infinite cost, even though it has a low chance of occuring (unfortunately higher than winning at the lottery but still), while taking all possible precautions has a non-null cost. while such precautions could seem excessive and unjustified, they make sense in the face of the unbearable possiblity of letting your child be harmed. Again if one felt comfortable with the idea of putting a price tag on a child&#8217;s life, there could be a treshold where it would be rational to stop. That&#8217;s the difference between the real world and a hypothetic model. </p>
<p>finally the example he gave is not too convincing. it is inaccurate to say that this test gives erroneous results 9999 times out of 10000; because it also gives correct results for 990000 people&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a mathematician that gambles now and again. and loses more often than not. but that&#8217;s ok</p>
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		<title>By: Kester</title>
		<link>http://flowingdata.com/2008/06/04/our-horrible-non-ability-to-misunderstand-statistics-of-rare-events/#comment-50475</link>
		<dc:creator>Kester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flowingdata.com/?p=737#comment-50475</guid>
		<description>Getting into &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Black Swan&lt;/a&gt; territory. Currently reading the book, and sheds light on the casino issue in a bit more detail - well worth it.

It does make you reconsider the use of visualization as a &quot;this is how it is and will be&quot; tool of analysis and prediction. But then again, it&#039;s pretty difficult to account for those rare events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting into <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory" rel="nofollow">Black Swan</a> territory. Currently reading the book, and sheds light on the casino issue in a bit more detail &#8211; well worth it.</p>
<p>It does make you reconsider the use of visualization as a &#8220;this is how it is and will be&#8221; tool of analysis and prediction. But then again, it&#8217;s pretty difficult to account for those rare events.</p>
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